Plot Armor: I can't resist it, what do?

[Demesnedenoir]

Has a 100% corrupted person become incorruptible? If Satan was convinced to give up a soul, has he been corrupted from his goal? Corruption itself would need to be defined, then incorruptible, and then... In the end it isn't worth the time and effort, heh heh.

 

[BearBear]

Has a 100% corrupted person become incorruptible? If Satan was convinced to give up a soul, has he been corrupted from his goal? Corruption itself would need to be defined, then incorruptible, and then... In the end it isn't worth the time and effort, heh heh.

I disagree that it's not worth the time and effort if you're having fun doing it.

Hmm, if you're corrupted to the point of uncorruptable then are you again an automaton? If the Joker was incorruptible but could repent, then he's not an automaton but then he is "corruptible" if he did. It works both ways, sheesh.

So back to my point, if Batman is truly incorruptible then I argue he's indistinguishable from an automaton and that would be a weakness because it makes him predictable. That can be leveraged to his detriment. Back to the ultimate villian or hero, we have to shore that up. Perfection might be a weakness because it's predictable. Predictable villians or heros are so played out by now in my opinion so I really want someone unpredictable in a story that's unpredictable. I've just written too many predictable novels. I can't again.

I think the ultimate story must have an ultimate protagonist and an ultimate antagonist and they don't have to be two different people, just two different perspectives will do.

 

[BearBear]

Joker wants to prove him corrupt and cant. The joker is a contrast to batman. Batman makes his world not make sense.

The Joker said it himself, "Kill you? I don't wanna kill you. What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No. No no. You complete me."

Later

"Oh, you. You just couldn’t let me go, could you? This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. You are truly incorruptible, aren’t you? Huh? You won’t kill me out of some misplaced sense of self-righteousness. And I won’t kill you because you’re just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever."

I don't see a contrast, they're the same to me, insane automatons. Batman can't kill the joker is pure insanity just as potentially dangerous as the Joker just not as criminal.

I don't think Batman makes his world not make sense at all. He only exists as he is because of Batman. In the old canon, there's a comic where Joker thinks he killed Batman and becomes a law abiding citizen afterwards. In the movie, I can't find the quote, but it's something like, "I am the result of you." Joker speaking to Batman.

The trick I'm looking for in addition to believable fear of death is an unpredictable character, uncorruptable seems boring in that way.

 

[Prince of Spires]

As for the topic at hand, I believe that for an author plot armor doesn't exist. It's a term which holds no meaning to an author.

Plot armor is a term used when a reader reviews a book and comments on the author giving a character an easy way out. That's all it is. It's a sign that an author did something wrong (note: in the eyes of that reader, tastes differ).

The author, when writing the story, is the omnipotent, omnipresent, all-seeing god of that story. Everything the author writes is what happens, and he has complete control over every single aspect of that story. You can have a random meteor strike and instantly kill a character if you so chose. Or someone get bacterial meningitis and die in a few hours. Or alternatively, the characters in your RomCom get over themselves and decide that whatever is in the way of their relationship is actually a non-issue and they get together and live happily ever after. As an author, you are god.

Therefore, the whole idea of plot armor existing is ridiculous when writing. All that matters is that you make it believable to the reader. If someone complains a character has plot armor then you've not made the situation believable to that reader. The problem then probably is in the set-up to whatever that situation was. Foreshadow what's going to happen, or craft the situation such that a character can realistically survive and you're fine.

What you have is not a problem with plot armor. It's simply that you don't want to kill characters. There is nothing wrong with that. Just write stories where no one dies. There are plenty of those. Just don't aim to write war epics like the next Game of Thrones, since that would end up being unbelievable and result in complaints about plot armor. Find other stories and tell those.

 

[BearBear]

The author, when writing the story, is the omnipotent, omnipresent, all-seeing god of that story.

Can be, maybe should be, but I wrote a whole trilogy with zero planning and just let it flow out. That was the challenge, to write a good story, a novel, as a blind writing exercise. It not only worked, the plot was compelling and though it still obeyed my one law here, no one died or was maimed permanently, it didn't have to. In facf one of my main characters died but were resurrected because her race had a special connection to the Earth and she happened to be physically touching skin to ground. Otherwise she'd have stayed dead and that was, believe it or not, shocking when it happened and I really felt destroyed by it; like a piece of me died. However it was fleeting of course because as the story progressed the resurrection was obvious. I promise you I didn't consiously plan any of it. This series was written all in the flow. One of my all time favorite characters came from that and it was some of my best writing. Very long winded though.

What you said is still technically true, I just wasn't consiously aware of it. Who else wrote it if not me? So yeah. This is one of those challenges then, thanks for reminding me, though I have already been writing scenes and I will use them, the rest would ideally be spontaneous. Thank you. This is a bit of a breakthrough.

As an author, you are god.

In interactive character exercises, my characters have spontaneously called me "creator." It's clear I am their god, and I'm not a god who likes to torture his lambs. I was also called "the lord of chaos" which is an allusion to the original gos pf mythos who begot gods such as Nyx, and Eros, etc.

All that matters is that you make it believable to the reader. If someone complains a character has plot armor then you've not made the situation believable to that reader.

Considering that for many of my books I may only ever be the only reader, then it also must be believable to me.

It's simply that you don't want to kill characters. There is nothing wrong with that.

There is something wrong with that and it all ties together here, believability and more importantly, skin in the game. I got the notion in 2019 that I need to write my next book given the possibility that someone I care for dies, like hardcore gaming. I would genuinely hate it, the story may be at least temporarily ruined if they did, and the urge to bring them back somehow may haunt me for the rest of my days and perhaps that's the best sort of game, the one where you rack your brain for days and weeks trying to understand, undo, bargain away and finally accept the loss. No save scumming. It's a much harder game and no plot armor can protect you then.

...

I feel like you brought it all together for me here. I know I can do this now, and I don't actually have to consiously plan a character's death. There are real dangers and believability is the key to permanence. Finally I think I can turn off the safeties on the holodeck and begin the adventure.

Thanks to you and all the responses here I have a "plan". The actual death may not actually occur but it might and now I may go. You helped me solve that riddle. I simply write and let what happens happen. Like I said, it doesn't have to be a book that appeals to anyone, but it does have to be believable... amid time traveling dragon slayers and subspace teleportation, but you know.