Anyone have any guides/tools for determining realistic climate foe geography?

[Marscaleb]

This is something I think about when designing a world map. The geography drastically impacts climate; adding a mounting range in one spot can turn an area into a desert, adding some lakes that are big enough will create cold fronts in certain regions.
I have some idea of some of these effects, but I would like to know more. I'm curious if there are any tools or at least comprehensive guides to how the geography is going to effect weather and climate. I would love to have a program where I could paint some land and mountains and have it calculate for me what kind of weather I would have. Where would my deserts be? Where would my forests be?

Anyone know where I could find such a tool, or find a detailed guide?

 

[pmmg]

That would be tricky. Heck its tricky on our own world. We have the great conveyer belt in the ocean which contributes a lot. If another world is different it might not even have this.

Typicllay. Rivers go from mountains and to oceans. And land is usually arid on one side of a mountain and green on the other. And lakes are just where ever the ground was lowest or made by something.

I would think important would be jet streams and ocean conveyers. But i doubt any reader will go that deep into a story.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

I never found one particular source but dug up information from all over the place to make the world mostly "plausible." But I also have layers of magical interference involved. For instance, plate tectonics is accompanied by planular tectonics. My major ocean currents follow the basic rules as do the trade winds and jet streams. The Inter Tropical Convergent Zone, or ITCZ, is useful to learn in order to understand how and why it moves north and south around the world. Honestly, it's been so long since I plotted out my world that many of the websites I used are probably gone, heh heh.

 

[BearBear]

Unless you're designing a whole world, use local affects and presume they're similar to your region of choice.

For example, look at the united states, we have all that. If your area is on the lee side of a mountain range, expect desert. If that's at a high elevation, expect high desert like the Gobi. If it's on the wet side, then expect a lot of green and rain. Also presume a prevailing wind, a jet stream and it's fairly predictable by simply looking at those early jet stream maps and geography on google Earth, you can easily look up weather patterns, historical averages, extremes, etc. When warm air wafts up to meet cold air then you get big storms. Tornadoes require flat land, hurricanes require warm water coastline, snow requires higher lattitude so you'll have longer summer days and shorter nights in summer, the reverse in winter.

I got away with not worrying about this because I chose Earth in a different timeline and age, and in any reasonable timeline weather is likely similar. Pursuming I stay in the holocene era, I'm safe-ish. Fast forward 10,000 years and all bets are off.

 

[CupofJoe]

I use Wikipedia as a starting point. If I want a place to have the weather feel of [for example] a high dry desert, I look up the climate of a town in a high dry desert. Then I riff from there. As for the larger area effects, I also tend to start with real-world examples. If you look long enough you can find almost anything you want. For one, I love that there are a few rivers that actually run through mountain ranges, and there are other rivers that just end in a desert...

 

[Finchbearer]

I’ve been working on a map for my world too, and I’ve based it on a real world landscape and climate - looking at Google maps is helpful, where I want to have vast wetlands, I’ve looked at Norfolk, England for example. Where I want to have an estuary in a coastal city running from a range of mountains I’ve looked at the real world places where this occurs. That’s the northern hemisphere too, so not really any deserts but plenty of mountain ranges, and vast forests. Basically I’d say real world examples are your best friend. You can reasonably adapt your map and model it on real climates and topography.

 

[pmmg]

Secretly, most of the woodland settings in my story are based on a park near my house .

 

[ForbiddenParadise64]

I actually designed an expanded Koppen category system for something like this;

This was done to better represent more alien climates such as those found in high obiquity worlds, hothouse or ice age conditions.

 

[Aldarion]

This is something I think about when designing a world map. The geography drastically impacts climate; adding a mounting range in one spot can turn an area into a desert, adding some lakes that are big enough will create cold fronts in certain regions.
I have some idea of some of these effects, but I would like to know more. I'm curious if there are any tools or at least comprehensive guides to how the geography is going to effect weather and climate. I would love to have a program where I could paint some land and mountains and have it calculate for me what kind of weather I would have. Where would my deserts be? Where would my forests be?

Anyone know where I could find such a tool, or find a detailed guide?

This is what I found:

Short guide:

https://gml.noaa.gov/outreach/lesson_plans/Factors%20that%20Affect%20Climate.pdf

https://gpm.nasa.gov/education/sites/default/files/lesson_plan_files/geographical%20influences/Geographical%20Influences%20-%20TG.pdf

https://hs.umt.edu/bssp/documents/cuturally%20congruent%20Units/LindaMandy_Climate_Unit.pdf

And this might help:

Azgaar's Fantasy Map Generator

Free web app that helps fantasy writers, game masters, and cartographers create and edit fantasy maps

azgaar.github.io

 

[Rexenm]

You’re looking for motivation. You could make something cool, like following the tectonic plates, putting that on your map. Detecting what makes your weather move, could be the most simplest of things, you just need a reason, and a birds eye view on the map.

Starting with ice caps could help the process, and having a bermuda triangle ending. Or there could be a conflicting air current, or an infernal device.

Plagues of biblical proportions, an apocalyptic armageddon; it all needs a source, it doesn’t come from nowhere.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Fractal Terrains can produce maps with at least semi-accurate climates, and playing around with them can give you some good ideas. But really, IMO, the plausibility of a world map starts with the geography and, hence, plate tectonics. And if you break the rules, know how you are breaking them. Know your land mass with mountains along with wind and ocean current patterns, and you are a long way in figuring out major climate regions. A basic and believable map, if you don't go for too much detail, can be achieved by knowing a few things about an Earth-like planet.

1: Rain shadows create deserts
2: Huge land masses can create deserts as the air runs out of water to carry
3: west coasts are cold water and drier
4: east coasts are warm water and wetter
5: figure out the movement of your ITZC and its general effects
6: know your world's major wind currents and jet streams

Australia, as I recall, is an interesting land mass because where it's at now, it gets enough rain to be greener in many areas, but due to its volcanic isolation on its tectonic plate, the soil has, over the millennia, become infertile. So, if you have a land mass in the middle of a tectonic plate and therefore less volcanic, you can have your own version of Australia. But, it's an example of a basic rainfall = green rule breaker.

 

[pmmg]

We should just build some volcanos in Australia. Problem solved.

 

[Finchbearer]

Australia and China are opposites of each other in terms of fertile land. The centre of Australia is very dry and arid and the centre of China is fertile and lush.

I like messing around on Azgaar, but I don’t know how accurate the tributaries are. And the names are terrible. I just hand drew my map, just to create a physical image in my mind.

I am not convinced on the need for geographical accuracy in fantasy maps. ASOIAF map is not at all realistic with its giant ice wall, and Mordor isn’t exactly realistic neither, and yet…

 

[Demesnedenoir]

The ice wall is a construct, and... magic. My world map is not accurate to known laws everywhere, but I have planular plates that create "impossible" situations.

Mordors mountains aren't necessarily impossible, but the creation of ME isn't based on science either.

This thread is more about if you want realism. There is no requirement to be realistic.

Australia and China are opposites of each other in terms of fertile land. The centre of Australia is very dry and arid and the centre of China is fertile and lush.

I like messing around on Azgaar, but I don’t know how accurate the tributaries are. And the names are terrible. I just hand drew my map, just to create a physical image in my mind.

I am not convinced on the need for geographical accuracy in fantasy maps. ASOIAF map is not at all realistic with its giant ice wall, and Mordor isn’t exactly realistic neither, and yet…

 

[Finchbearer]

Hmm, suspension of reality in a fantasy world is not quite the same as realism in the real world.

With my map I’ve generally aimed for realism with there being no anomalies as mentioned above, all the Wyrm’s live beneath ground…or do they??

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Best I can tell, wyrms live in my brain.

Hmm, suspension of reality in a fantasy world is not quite the same as realism in the real world.

With my map I’ve generally aimed for realism with there being no anomalies as mentioned above, all the Wyrm’s live beneath ground…or do they??

 

[Genly]

1: Rain shadows create deserts
2: Huge land masses can create deserts as the air runs out of water to carry
3: west coasts are cold water and drier
4: east coasts are warm water and wetter
5: figure out the movement of your ITZC and its general effects
6: know your world's major wind currents and jet streams

That's a good summary. It would be good to start by specifying the ocean currents, though, as these can have a profound effect on the climate of the adjacent coastlines. The currents would typically flow from east to west in the tropics and from west to east in the mid-latitudes. If they were blocked by continents, then they could be pushed north or south. An example is the Peru current, the cold current along the west coast of South America, which is created by the blocking of an eastward-flowing current by the southern tip of South America, thus pushing cold water northward (this is a simplification, but a good enough start). Regions with adjacent cold currents would tend to be drier than regions with adjacent warm currents e.g. southern California versus Florida. In the mid-latitudes, west coasts are very rainy due to the prevailing winds being onshore e.g. Pacific Northwest, but they are often dry in the subtropics because the prevailing wind is from the land instead of the ocean. And so on.

Maybe one way to figure out climates of a fantasy world would be to post a map of the geography here and solicit this kind of general comment.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

I'm not sure how they aren't there, LMAO.

That's a good summary. It would be good to start by specifying the ocean currents, though, as these can have a profound effect on the climate of the adjacent coastlines. The currents would typically flow from east to west in the tropics and from west to east in the mid-latitudes. If they were blocked by continents, then they could be pushed north or south. An example is the Peru current, the cold current along the west coast of South America, which is created by the blocking of an eastward-flowing current by the southern tip of South America, thus pushing cold water northward (this is a simplification, but a good enough start). Regions with adjacent cold currents would tend to be drier than regions with adjacent warm currents e.g. southern California versus Florida. In the mid-latitudes, west coasts are very rainy due to the prevailing winds being onshore e.g. Pacific Northwest, but they are often dry in the subtropics because the prevailing wind is from the land instead of the ocean. And so on.

Maybe one way to figure out climates of a fantasy world would be to post a map of the geography here and solicit this kind of general comment.

 

[ForbiddenParadise64]

That's a good summary. It would be good to start by specifying the ocean currents, though, as these can have a profound effect on the climate of the adjacent coastlines. The currents would typically flow from east to west in the tropics and from west to east in the mid-latitudes. If they were blocked by continents, then they could be pushed north or south. An example is the Peru current, the cold current along the west coast of South America, which is created by the blocking of an eastward-flowing current by the southern tip of South America, thus pushing cold water northward (this is a simplification, but a good enough start). Regions with adjacent cold currents would tend to be drier than regions with adjacent warm currents e.g. southern California versus Florida. In the mid-latitudes, west coasts are very rainy due to the prevailing winds being onshore e.g. Pacific Northwest, but they are often dry in the subtropics because the prevailing wind is from the land instead of the ocean. And so on.

Maybe one way to figure out climates of a fantasy world would be to post a map of the geography here and solicit this kind of general comment.

True, though this is for prograde or counterclockwise worlds, retrograde ones would be the reverse for currents, and obviously different rotation speeds, obiquity and orbital variations would influence things too.

 

[Marscaleb]

I am not convinced on the need for geographical accuracy in fantasy maps. ASOIAF map is not at all realistic with its giant ice wall, and Mordor isn’t exactly realistic neither, and yet…

Considering how people keep digging up this thread, it would seem a lot of people are interested in it.

It's worth pointing out that many times in my writing I have penned some idea or some event, only to later realize it "isn't reasonable", and as I pursue what IS reasonable I suddenly find myself writing a much better story, with more depth and nuance than what I had originally penned.
Who is to say that the same thing can't happen to a fantasy map?
Maybe some bland section I drew out, after understanding how realistic geography/climate works, would actually be a massive desert. And then when I start revising the country that lived there, I suddenly find they have a much better reason for wanting to go to war with this other nation, or when revising the technology they have I stumble across some really cool things they would be using, or I get inspired for a different religious symbol they use? It wouldn't be the first time.

Besides, some us really like maps, and really like looking at maps! Sure, ASOFAI has an absolutely terrible map and that didn't stop it from becoming popular, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been more enjoyable if all of us map-nerds got something fun to gobble up.