Prologues?

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I'm totally going to poke at this one, and I hope it doesn't land me in hot water! Every episode of Star Wars begins with a scripted prologue! I wonder if Lucas had a bunch of producers barking at him to remove it? Anyway, no one seems to have ever complained about these prologues. A lot of films have these. I think Willow has one, too.

The Star Wars opening crawls are no longer than about 100 words. That's pretty tiny, and the amount of information conveyed is minimal. They don't convey the whole history of the Republic and Empire, as I said. My point wasn't that Star Wars doesn't have a prologue; it's that its prologue doesn't try to explain everything that ever happened. It gives the bare essentials so that when you see the Tantive IV and Vader's Star Destroyer show up, you already know who they are and why they're being chased.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Ok, here's my opinion. It's meant to be constructive....

Yes, you have a major info dump there. Right at the beginning of the book, as a prologue, when I don't even feel any story connection yet? Well it's just boring to me.

Every single thing in those 2 paragraphs could be relayed to the reader during the actual story itself & in much more interesting ways.

To give it a bit of technical analysis, compare it to (for example) the Star Wars opening crawl:

It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire’s ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet. Pursued by the Empire’s sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy….

83 words. This prologue names one character, two organizations, and one object. And only one word (Leia) in the entire crawl is a word the audience might be unfamiliar with. Everyone's already going to know what an empire is and what rebels are. "Death Star" is a new term but we know both those words and it's easy to envision what it might be.

Phin's prologue is 168 words (twice as long) and introduces thirteen terms:

* Olymphin
* Rión
* Sylphs
* Elf Battles
* the Five Realms
* Mystics
* New Songs
* Saolo
* Nuolo
* Elf Knights
* dekems
* Dark Elfs
* Hylmena

Most readers (myself included) are going to have their eyes glaze over upon reading the prologue. With so many new concepts introduced all at once, it's almost impossible to absorb any of it.

 

[Phin Scardaw]

Phin's prologue is 168 words (twice as long) and introduces thirteen terms:

* Olymphin
* Rión
* Sylphs
* Elf Battles
* the Five Realms
* Mystics
* New Songs
* Saolo
* Nuolo
* Elf Knights
* dekems
* Dark Elfs
* Hylmena

Most readers (myself included) are going to have their eyes glaze over upon reading the prologue. With so many new concepts introduced all at once, it's almost impossible to absorb any of it.

I think you're stretching a bit on that one: a good deal of these "new terms" are easy enough to puzzle out: New Songs, Sylphs, Mystics, Five Realms, Elf Battles, Dark Elfs, Elf Knights. Anyone picking up a fantasy book should be familiar enough with the genre to not see these as confusing new terminology - or so I would hope.

As for the rest, they are all pretty much defined in the prologue, which is its essential purpose.

It's certainly an interesting experiment to see how others are reacting to the opinions about prologues. I was pointing out that while a lot of people on MS seem to be saying that info-dumps in prologues are to be avoided, such a thing can be very effectively used, such as in the Star Wars films.

And I wouldn't expect preceding text in a film to be much longer than what they put to use, but I believe that what I've written is quite short for a book and hopefully tolerable. If a reader can't make it through two paragraphs they probably have ADD and should spend less time playing video games.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

If the reader can't get through 2 paragraphs it's your problem not theirs simply because you'll have no readers.

An agent or editors time is even more valuable. One paragraph in and they're likely to put it in the circular file.

It is essential to hook them whether they're a reader, agent, or editor. The only way you can even think otherwise is if your an already published name with a fan base willing to tolerate it.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I think you're stretching a bit on that one: a good deal of these "new terms" are easy enough to puzzle out: New Songs, Sylphs, Mystics, Five Realms, Elf Battles, Dark Elfs, Elf Knights. Anyone picking up a fantasy book should be familiar enough with the genre to not see these as confusing new terminology - or so I would hope.

As for the rest, they are all pretty much defined in the prologue, which is its essential purpose.

I agree that several of the terms are made up of individual words readers will recognize (ok, so "Elf Knights" are elves who are knights, easy enough), but there's still a bunch of made-up words, and I don't agree that they're all defined by the prologue. Having read through a couple of times, I still don't know what the Rión is, what Olymphin means, whether Rión or Olymphin is one of the Five Realms, why "Mystics" would use songs, let alone engineer things (engineering implies science and discipline, not mysticism), what the difference is between the Saolo and the Nuolo, how the Dark Elfs fit into it, or who exactly it is that formed the Hylmena (I think it's the Dark Elves?).

It's a lot of concepts all at once, and it's not explaining much of anything, and I've read it four times and I'm still vague on a lot of it. And if you'd like to tell me that I just have ADD and play too many video games, I suppose that's your prerogative, but that wouldn't really be supported by the evidence of my life.

It's certainly an interesting experiment to see how others are reacting to the opinions about prologues. I was pointing out that while a lot of people on MS seem to be saying that info-dumps in prologues are to be avoided, such a thing can be very effectively used, such as in the Star Wars films.

Like I said, the A New Hope prologue introduces a grand total of four concepts, and zero made-up words (Leia is actually a real-world name, just not a common Western one). It's not much of an infodump. (It also has catchy music going along with it, which helps. If there were no music, it would be a lot less interesting.)

 

[Lord Darkstorm]

The original question I think was about should it include background information the main characters didn't know. Benjamin makes a good point, and if we just step back from the concept of prolog, it comes more to a question of providing information that only the reader will know for a good part of the story. The real question is: what will the reader miss out on if they don't get information that no one else in the story knows either?

This is a common thing, since prolog questions come up regularly and the same arguments happen over and over. The reason this keeps happening is that some people feel that the reader can't possibly enjoy the story without all the background first, or a good chunk of it. I'd liken this to being required to read the Silmarillion prior to reading lotr. I couldn't muddle through that after reading lotr. If a prolog is of a quality that it is as good as the main story, has some form of significances to the reader (not to indulge the author), then a prolog is probably fine.

As I said above, one really effective way of using a prologue is to let the reader know something in advance that the MC doesn't know. What is the effect of this? There are probably several but the main two are to set up a pleasurable expectation in the mind of the reader, but more importantly, to inspire tension/drama in the mind of the reader as s/he watches the MC walking obliviously into peril.

I have to say this would only be true if the information is incredibly interesting. Which would be rare, and something you have not used yourself...more likely it will spoil the suspense of what is going on while the reader keeps asking when the main character will find out. This is similar to a frame setup, that is overused too often. Start out at the end to try and convince the reader that your story is actually going to be good...more and more I find it would have been better if the story had just been told outright. I'm still skeptical of the frame setup used by Patrick Rothfuss in his series. In the second book there was never a time I really had any concern that anything really bad would happen to the main character (death, maiming, or other nastiness) since I knew that in the present he was physically fine. This cost was tension the story might have had without that knowledge of the future.

Everything we do has tradeoffs, I find it more of a challenge to let the user learn about the world the characters live in as the story progresses, instead of trying to shove it all up front at the reader before they have even decided my story might be worth their time.

 

[R.S.Robertson]

Actually, my original question was a statement, but it's fine that you saw it as a question as I probably should have phrased it as one. The statement was that the prologue I have planned occurs twenty-some-odd years before the actual story and in a different world from the one where the first couple of chapters happen.

My feeling on this particular prologue is that it would let the reader know that there is more to the story coming down the line. What I have at this point doesn't mention anyone or anything that is going to show up for several chapters and even then the actual events are unknown to almost everyone that they effect.

That being said, I have wavered heavily toward both sides of the fence on using the prologue. Some days I think it's a bit of a cheep shot and that it's not fair to my story or to the reader while other days I think it might actually be of interest and serve a purpose. In all honesty, I won't know if I'm going to include it until I'm finished with the first book.

 

[Lord Darkstorm]

My feeling on this particular prologue is that it would,let the reader know that there is more to the story coming down the line.

To me, this says you have some doubts the story will be enough to keep the readers interest. If this is the case, I'd suggest looking at what makes you doubt it is going to be enough. Even without reading it, (and this has nothing really to do with a prolog) I would suggest not including it. You don't need it, the reader doesn't need it, and you should let your main character(s) have their time in the spotlight without the shadow of something that you imply they might never really know themselves. Some unknowns are just fine, assuming that the characters don't know and no one else does either. If it is too big of a mystery that it causes believability issues, then find a way of providing more in the story. If not, then you'll be fine and your story will be too.

 

[RedMorningSky]

I like prologues but I've heard that a lot of people skip them. It's silly to me because if you're investing the time in reading the book then it would make sense to actually read the book. But if people are prone to not read it then I guess writers need to be careful to make sure what information they include, as not to include anything too important that people will be lost if they miss it.

 

[ALB2012]

I have no problem with prologues and I do not understand what the fuss is about. I got into a heated discussion on that very subject on the amazon forums. When I finally got someone to answer "Why" they said they were often info dumps, which can be true but we often it sets the scene. Really if you are going to read a book, read it. You are not going to go. "Oh chapter & they are always crap, let me skip it."

 

[ALB2012]

It comes down to personal tastes, of course. I'm all for going with your own vision of the story. That said, as a reader I'm not a fan of prologues. I've been known on many occasions to put a book back on the shelf when I see a prologue in it, particularly if it is more than a couple of pages long. It seems to me a prologue, by definition, is something that comes "before" the story. I'd rather the author just get on with the story.

I've bought books with prologues, of course. Some were very good. In other cases, they were boring as hell. In still other cases I don't know because I skipped them to get on to the actual story

Why? Surely that says if the prologue is that bad the story will be. I have skipped them but usually only in books I have read before. I tend to give up reading full stop if a book fails to hold my attention, prologue or not.

Often I find the prologue has useful info that is relevent however may detract from the action- really are you going to want Bob the Warrior reminiscing about happy days 30 years ago before he was exiled just as he was about to kill the dragon. Ok exageratting but you know what i mean

 

[ALB2012]

Ok, here's my opinion. It's meant to be constructive....

Yes, you have a major info dump there. Right at the beginning of the book, as a prologue, when I don't even feel any story connection yet? Well it's just boring to me.

Every single thing in those 2 paragraphs could be relayed to the reader during the actual story itself & in much more interesting ways.

Hehe I disagree, but I think this is one of those questions were there is no right or wrong answer. Personally I am going with usuing prologues in my stories- if you dont like it dont read them. If the prologue does go on for 20 pages then yes it is probably too long but I think it is a personal choice. I think the example cited is short enough to provide info, a few times I have read books with a distinct lack of info and I sit thinking why- what is the background. Maybe that is just me.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

If you read all of the comments in the thread you will notice that I said I do love a good prologue. It just has to be done right.

To me doing it right means that you're giving some critical information that can't be delivered in the meat of the story.

It can enhance the experience but often it serves as a device for writing that doesn't strive to keep the information urgent. Some authors try to use it as a device to explain everything that will follow. Most times that's when I don't like a prologue but there are always exceptions.

 

[ALB2012]

Fair enough, I think my brain had melted by that point. So it seems some people like them- so long as there is a point to them not just an info dump which could be added elsewhere or even not at all, if used correctly they can be helpful. Some people dislike them, and some people don't care either way

I know on the amazon forums some people seemed to think prologue writing made you akin to satan;0

 

[Steerpike]

IMO, there is no such thing as critical information that "can't" be imparted to the reader in the story itself. I am open to examples, however.

 

[JCFarnham]

IMO, there is no such thing as critical information that "can't" be imparted to the reader in the story itself. I am open to examples, however.

This is my view also, mostly.

Let me expand on that. I don't think using prologues for "critical information" is the right way to go about crafting one. That kind of information CAN be impart in the story proper. What I prefer they be used as (note the opinion there) is scene setting. Eg, in Sanderson's first Mistborn book. It's interesting in its own right. It's own self contained scene. It gives you the power roles straight away between the two races.

Whether you like the rest or not, I believe we can learn for this. Use your prologue to set the mood and tone, not tell the 30 years prior. Is it a murder mystery? Stick the murder there. Start chapter one with the sleuths. Romance? Something romantic but unrelated (duh?). Action/adventure? Well you get the idea... Like the precredit teaser in tv dramas.

Just a quick couple of examples there. Whether you start with a prologue or chapter one, you need to HOOK your readership with that opening. Work on that, not where you're going to put your baby.. sorry background